Libertarians & LGBT Alliance: What's Next?
Reason's LGBT expert, Scott Shackford takes a look at the future of relations between libertarians and the LGBT community. One item of agreement, same sex marriage, seems to have been resolved. Where do we go next?
"But just because libertarians and gay citizens were aligned in the pursuit of ending government mistreatment, that doesn't mean other goals line up. Libertarians draw that bright, hard line between government behavior and private behavior. Others often do not, and what many gay activists see as justice and equality in the private sector, libertarians see as inappropriate government coercion."
Shackford then goes on to look at certain issues such as religious freedom, transgender recognition and adoption. Hard for me to read through it all and get a feeling for just what he thinks. I get the impression he thinks most problems we might see the LGBT community might want addressed aren't really problems at all, can be handled without more government involvement, or perhaps we'll just end up on opposing sides.
I don't think the LGBT community will agree. My experience, albeit limited, is they generally lean strongly left, if not authoritarian. Thus, forcing bakers to bake cakes for them or photograph their weddings isn't out of the question.
I hope I'm wrong but, as we've already seen with Johnny's comments here, getting government out of marriage goes too far. Government needs to be in charge of it. The same will likely apply to most other issues.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 9:51 AM
4 comments
4 Comments:
Hi Fred,
If, as you say, your experience with the LGBT community is limited why not ask our views instead of (mis) characterizing them?
The LGBT community is large, diverse and has lots of different views. Saying we are all hard left is like saying all libertarians are right-wing. That's the stereotype, but is it true? There are LGBT folks in every permutation of every political movement; always has been and always will be.
While many of our issues may not appear to be real problems to you, you've never dealt with the prejudice, anger, disrespect and violence that we have. You walk a mile in our shoes and tell me what real problems are.
We have the right to be treated just the same as everyone else. We have the right not be fired solely on our sexual orientation or gender identity. We have the right to marry who we choose and worship where we want and live where we want. Sometimes it takes government to ensure equal access and a level playing field for everyone.
I don't see a day where a small business is forced to serve someone they don't wish to serve. Denying a customer service because you don't like that they're LGBT is stupid, shortsighted and an easy way to go bankrupt. But would you seriously buy a wedding cake from someone who doesn't want to sell it? Would you go to any vendor that doesn't want to serve you? Would you want to give that kind of person your money? I wouldn't.
But there are also consequences for letting your prejudice outweigh your business sense. The LGBT community and our allies have every right to publicize, criticize and boycott such businesses.
It's different if the business is considered a public accommodation, but small bakers, caterers and photographers aren't.
Sorry. Although my experience may be limited, I've seen time and time again that the LGBT community supports authoritarian public policy. Even if they're not philosophical authoritarians, they're certainly functional ones- that meaning, as a group, they generally support authoritarian candidates for office.
"I don't see a day where a small business is forced to serve someone they don't wish to serve. Denying a customer service because you don't like that they're LGBT is stupid, shortsighted and an easy way to go bankrupt. But would you seriously buy a wedding cake from someone who doesn't want to sell it?"
Granted, and I've pointed that out here before. Yet a handful of LGBT folks have tried to force a business to serve them, and those LGBTs that might be on the fence support those efforts, if even half halfheartedly.
Not sure if you've been here before, but not long ago I brought up a married lesbian couple I work for. I started in right away with one of them for the LGBT ragging on the Indiana religious freedom law. She agreed with me, or seemed to. Then I hear from someone else that they were planning on boycotting Indiana on their months long trip across the state.
Nothing wrong with boycotts, but it showed me, as I've always been aware of, LGBT tend to want their preferences, victim status, and whatever else. Those on the fence will follow the more active in that regard.
" ...why not ask our views instead of (mis) characterizing them?"
Almost missed this. Reason I haven't asked? I don't have to. I've seen more than enough from people I know to get my perspective. And I'm talking LGBT folks, although perhaps the B should be taken out of that.
Everybody should be fighting for everybody's rights, regardless of bias against their issue. Most libertarians are this way. They don't care who you love, whether you CC, are a religious fanatic, etc, all that matters is the fact you, we, I, have a right that deserves to stand tall.
What upsets me, is people who demand their right, but refuse to acknowledge or accept the rights of others.
There are fine lines when it comes to the marriage thing, for most libertarian type thinkers. First & foremost is the fact that the government has zero right in governing we the people. To force them to do so is traitorous. We also don't agree with the man/woman/church tax write offs either. The IRS, for point number 2, is an unconstitutional agency. They have no right to steal our money by threat of incarceration or death at gunpoint. Yet, the "I have a right!!" Protestors are ignorantly begging for the IRS & govt laws both. The church's man & woman is a club for man & woman, & should be respected as such. There is no reason the LGB can't form their own tax write off marriage club. The only reason libertarians still marry by way of the marriage laws, is because nobody has taken to task the right to fix the crummy marriage laws & it's almost impossible to function financially without the govt paperwork. We should all be fighting for the right to marry without any govt paperwork involved.
The church thing is extreme prejudice as well, but fortunately, most people understand that those extremists are just that, extremists. You can't erase extremism, but you can create your own beliefs, church, marriage vows, & most importantly help every person fighting for their right regardless if you like that right or not. People DO have the right to say "no".
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